How to Defeat the Presuppositionalist (so says this atheist)
Back in 2006 a blog article by an atheist posting as “Azrienoc” came out explaining how to defeat presuppositionalists in debate. Azrienoc’s blog is long gone, but I will post his article in full as he has come the closest to recognizing the atheist’s dilemma in trying to refute the Biblical Apologetic that I have seen. Enjoy!
“Atheists, scientists, philosophers, and other thinking persons that spawn from the second kind of post-modern tradition: I am calling you out. This is your fault. It is this lack of rigor, effort, and sincerity of atheists, scientists, philosophers, and other thinking persons today that has created the monster of Christian presuppositionalism in non-academic philosophy. But mind you, it won’t be non-academic for long.
I’ve seen you fight presuppositionalism with every reasonable bone in your body. But as long as you continue to claim that there is truth, they will win. They have the upper hand against you in using the deconstructive techniques of the first kind of post-modernism. And as long as you insist that there is truth, they can just take you at your own word. Watching you collide with the presuppositionalists is like watching a mother fight with her own child; you want to beat them as hard as you can, but at the same time, you want pieces of them to survive the fight because their truth is your own.
I’ve read paper upon paper on how to defeat a presuppositionalist in debate, and each time I see one of those methods used, I’ve also seen them fail. So listen closely, because I’m about to tell you how to beat them: cut their feet off. Of course, you will only be able to do this by admitting and remembering that you also have no feet. Show them there is no logos and no truth, and they too will have nothing to stand on. This mutated child you’ve given us will die.
But this is a self-sacrificial mission. Your own flawed philosophy, based off of your hopes and desires instead of your honesty and rigor, will die too. That is the tradeoff. If you decide not to, and go about fighting them your way, you only lend them the time and practice to get stronger.
Why don’t I do this? I do. But every time I speak, I find myself either dismissed as ridiculous and ignored, or not heard at all. This is your problem. You created it. You clean it up.”
Listen to Dr. James Anderson’s presentation on the Atheist’s dilemma.
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lol…and this is the BEST they have? The closest they can come?? So there’s no truth, eh? Is that true? Argument over.
Atheism is so sad.
Mike
January 1, 2013
It really is too late. Presuppositional Apologetics has already entered academia! Philosophia Christi published, “The LORD of Non-Contradiction,” involving one version of the transcendental argument.
No feet. Gee, that might explain why many of the atheists I’ve argued with over the years tend to be so slow on the uptake of my arguments. Several of them were willing to deny that the universe popped into being uncaused, or demanded for me to repeatedly define words I had already defined. I agree with Mike, atheism is sad, and especially if any version of the argument holds.
And really? The transcendental argument was not created by post modern thinking, nor as a reaction to it. It was born from a realization Nietzsche had about the nature of Truth; “Truth” is a supernatural concept!
To be true, a proposition must conform to reality, but this can only be if propositions are able to describe reality, which is only possible if the world is intelligible. Furthermore, propositions must be meaningful, but meaning is a transcendental concept. Therefore, if atheism is correct, it is impossible to describe reality, because meaning does not exist, and the world is not intelligible. If atheism is true, truth is not.
Caleb Neff
January 23, 2013